Joe and Dick Anesthetize the Nation
Another boring debate
by the Editors
Thursday, Oct. 5, 2000 -- NEW YORK (AmpolNS) -- Bernie Shaw hosted the second boring debate of the 2000 presidential campaign.
How boring? We wish he had asked the notorious "Kitty Dukakis" question. -- now THAT would have made the show a lot more exciting!
Sen. Joe Lieberman got the first question, concerning federal budget surpluses that may not show up. Lieberman said he would not engage in personal attacks (he should have saved that point for last), then tried to answer the question in ten seconds. Cheney promised not to bring up Lieberman's singing, which got a laugh from the audience, and then said gave a vague answer about making a vague forecast to support fundamental changes, and added that he cares about the issues at stake, saying that "we hadn't moved" on important issues. No points for either.
What's the solution to the present public education system? Cheney wants to restore its glory, claiming that there has been no progress on reading scores, citing test results (but he's WRONG, using only one set of tests). He cited other questionable "failures" as he claimed that kids are condemned to failure -- then called local control a cure. Note: Cheney made NO mention of vouchers or charter schools! Lieberman said that he and Gore were committed to making American schools the best in the world -- then challenged Cheney's assertion about test scores. Lieberman mentioned the monster surplus -- part of which should be invested in education instead of tax cuts for the rich. Lieberman mentioned class size, physical plants, and the college tuition tax deduction proposal. Point to Joe.
Cheney asked for an extension, then talked about surplus set-asides in detail -- he is now claiming that a fourth of the surplus will be "returned" (but people want the debt paid down, not givebacks). Cheney claimed that the assertion that the surplus going to tax cuts is not true, then said we have the highest level of taxation since World War II -- hey, didn't REAGAN once claim that? And this writer's taxes have DROPPED in the last decade!! Lieberman talked about the origin of the surplus numbers and the need for a Social Security and Medicare lockbox -- then reiterated the $1.6 billion out of $1.8 trillion in givebacks and a "stealth tax increase" when interest rates go back up because the GOP has blown the budget and increased the deficit. 2012 -- Dems have no debt; GOP has $2.6 trillion in debt. Point: Joe.
Sexual equality in the workplace was the subject of the next question. Lieberman wants to eliminate the pay gap by supporting an Equal Pay Act, plus support of agencies to help women get into and stay in business. Cheney agreed with Lieberman in principle -- but said that Bush provides more tax relief. Not convincing. No points.
Lieberman extended -- saying that the Gore tax relief plan includes a $500 credit for stay-home moms, and though Bush says he gives a tax cut to all, 27 million Americans don't according to one nonpartisan study. Cheney said he likes tax cuts.
Does Cheney support legislated restrictions on RU-486? Cheney wants to reduce abortions, and said that it has been approved by the FDA -- but that he'd like to look across the divide of pro-choicers and pro-lifers -- and wants to ban late-term abortions (he used the fake "partial birth" term invented by anti-choicers). Cheney spent a lot of time talking about late-term abortions. Lieberman said that he opposes legislation to override the FDA after a judgment based on 12 years of study -- it should stand. Gore and Lieberman, he said, respect and will protect reproductive choice. Point to Joe.
Talk turned to the Yugoslav crisis. Lieberman gave the country breaking news -- the state news agency now reports that the opposition candidate won, and that Milosevic may have fled Yugoslavia (after the debate, CNN reported that Milosevic is holed up in a bunker outside of Belgrade). Lieberman discussed the leadership America took in stopping genocide -- and contrary to GOP positions, it was in America's interest to do so, and sends a strong deterrent message to our enemies and those who would commit genocide. Cheney congratulated the Serbian people's courage, following on the democratization of other Eastern European countries. Cheney echoed his boss in getting Putin (Bush never named him) involved, then said that Gore "pooh-poohed" the idea. Beyond that, Cheney says this will be a test for Putin. On that point, we did agree with Cheney. One point each for Joe and Dick.
Shaw asked about overdeployment. He asked if Americans should be deployed as peacekeepers or warriors. Cheney walked into it -- said warriors, then said that Clinton had cut the military too much and deployed too thinly ("we are underresourced"), and young officers want to quit. The military, he said, was worse off -- and Bush would "rebuild." Lieberman assured the nation that the American military is the best-trained and best-equipped armed force. He called it bad to "run [them] down... in a partisan debate." Judging by results from Desert Storm to Kosovo, the results have been successful -- and Clinton has turned around the decline in military spending. Moreover, the interesting fact is that Gore commits twice the additional military funding in his plan than Bush does, especially for new systems.
Cheney extended. He said he was not attacking the military, but it's irresponsible to suggest that the point not be debated (Joe didn't say that). He talked about equipment non-combat readiness and lack of training -- and said that undermines morale. Then he lied, painting military equipment as "broken-down." His final point concerned a report about equipment replacement that was not done because of 'adventures." Lieberman fired back, saying that his service on the armed Services Committee and discussions with military personnel at all levels leads him to believe that we are ready. Soldiers serving in the Balkans, he said, are reenlisting at an exceptionally high rate. He then criticized Bush for skipping a new generation of equipment, and added that person by person, unit by unit, this is the greatest military in the world. Two points to Joe.
Shaw turned to Jerusalem -- and Syria. is American policy what it should be? Lieberman said yes. The violence in Jerusalem pains him, because there has been such huge progress. America has a strategic interest in Middle East peace -- Gore has played a part in this. Palestinians and Israelis have come generations forward in seven years, and Lieberman is hoping and praying that they go back to the peace table, and cited the efforts of Secretary of State Albright and President Chirac of France. Cheney said that it has been a difficult area for a long time, going back to World War II, and that the Gulf War brought Arab countries came together with Israel to fight Saddam (sadly, it's a different world seven years later, and Cheney's answer only served to underscore that fact). Cheney praised the late Yitzhak Rabin and said that Barak is trying similarly to settle the situation. He said that we need a president who will talk straight and keep his word. Sounds like an endorsement of Gore.
Shaw asked Cheney about Bush's comment about "taking out Saddam." Cheney essentially agreed (but Dick, he's a fellow oil man!), and talked about France thumbing their nose at the Iraq embargo. We can't afford Saddam with nukes, said Cheney. Lieberman said it would be an issue if there were substantial evidence that Saddam had nukes, but that it's inappropriate to discuss these details in a partisan forum. But he wants Saddam out too. Lieberman also pointed out that he joined the GOP in supporting Desert Storm -- but said that for the last decade, we've been enforcing a no-fly zone and struggling against Saddam to reinstate inspectors. Lieberman said he was proud to support anti-Saddam legislation with Trent Lott. Point to Joe for bipartisanship -- and holding his nose while doing it.
Shaw asked about oil supplies and prices -- have previous administrations including Clinton done enough? Lieberman said that Clinton would have -- if the GOP Congress had funded alternate energy, high-mileage vehicles, and other ideas. Lieberman said that he and Gore did make a controversial move by dipping into the reserve -- but it does send a message to OPEC that America will not roll over! The GOP, he added, have no plan to assist the middle class. And Joe even mentioned that oil prices have dropped since the announcement that we'd dip into the reserves. Cheney said that the campaign "position" is that Clinton has no energy policy (ha, ha, ha -- he admitted that it's spin!), and then talked about all the ALLEGED reasons that prices are so high -- including no new refineries for ten years.
Shaw then asked Cheney why he said no to oil exploration in Wyoming but yes in Alaska. Cheney said it was because he had a balanced view -- and got a laugh. But he was being serious, we think! It was downhill from there -- defending exploration in the Arctic wildlife reserve. Lieberman said that the problem is dependence on an energy source outside of our control -- and that Cheney's one-sided response is not enough. Lieberman is against drilling in a fragile ecology for oil that won't show for 7 to 12 years.
Shaw turned to Social Security, asking if the candidates will pledge that nobody will lose benefits. Lieberman said yes, through year 2054 -- it is critically important to protect Social Security in a lockbox. He then talked about the Bush privatization scheme -- and used an oil drilling metaphor to dismiss privatization. Cheney confused us with his answer, just saying that his daughters questioned whether there would be a program when they retire (as if they need it, ha, ha).
Partisanship! "The American people [big pause] have HAD ENOUGH!" intoned Shaw. The Ampol staff applauded and whooped. Cheney talked about -- catch this -- his private sector experience! He said that he's been impressed with the way Bush had "run" Texas (as fifth most powerful elected figure in the state, by the way), worked with Democrats, and didn't scapegoat.
Really, Cheney? Then why the attacks on Bill Clinton? That's scapegoating. Cheney lost five points for hypocrisy -- and not even for implying liberals blame big business for all the ills of the world.
Lieberman said that the parties seem to bring down government -- and he's tried to work with his GOP colleagues, naming a slew of conservative Republicans (including Don Nickles, with whom he sponsored the Religious Freedom Act). Come to think of it, Lieberman was talking about more GOPers positively than Cheney! TWO points for Joe for sheer bipartisan chutzpah. Cheney talked about "eight years of talk and no action," looking like a surly college professor, motormouthing and gesticulating. Lieberman said that Cheney must be the only person who thinks that nothing happened in eight years, like 22 million new jobs, low inflation, huge growth, and the famous Reagan question: are you better off than you were eight years ago? Lieberman said Cheney sure was! Cheney said the government had nothing to do with it -- and got a huge laugh from the audience (half a point for Cheney). Lieberman said that he wants to keep Cheney successful in the private sector.
The next question was on racial profiling. Shaw asked the candidates to imagine they were black and the target of racial profiling -- how would they feel? Lieberman said he would be outraged and it has to be stopped through legislation. Cheney said he could not imagine what it is like, but it must be horrible. He invoked Martin Luther King, imploring people to judge others on the content of their heart.
Same- sex couples -- should they enjoy the same rights as heterosexual married couples? Lieberman talked about the Creator and inalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence. At the frontier of today is extending these rights to gays and lesbians. Lieberman mentioned that he sponsored the Job Non-Discrimination Act. He added that the concept challenges the traditional concept of marriage, but he has friends who want inheritance rights and wants to find a solution that respects traditional ideas but ensures rights for all. Cheney said that it is a very tough question -- should there be some official sanction of gay couples? Cheney called it a states' rights issue, but he wants to see toleration and accommodation. A tie -- though we disagree with Cheney.
What would you bring to the job your opponent wouldn't? Cheney mentioned his political views, and recounted his experience in government. Lieberman said that Cheney was a very distinguished Defense Secretary -- then talked about his common upbringing, college, working in the Kennedy Administration, as a human rights litigator, and working in the senate on defense issues, and his friendship and shared values with Al Gore.
Shaw asked Cheney about the "shifts" in Lieberman's positions. Cheney joked about the question being a little mean, then said that he liked the old Joe better than the new Joe. Cheney said that the Dems were castigating the entertainment industry while taking their money -- and a comic who made fun of Bush's religion (we're waiting for Cheney to castigate hate radio hosts for calling Hillary a lesbian). Lieberman said he found the situation and the humor offensive and unacceptable -- and apologized, even though he was not responsible (we're waiting for Cheney to make his apology). Lieberman then fired a broadside at the entertainment industry for marketing R-rated films to 10-year-olds.
Final statements -- Lieberman wished his dad were around today so he could see his words about working hard and achievement had come true, echoing a portion of his stump speech. Cheney talked about high taxes and intrusive bureaucracy, rebuilding Social Security, Medicare reform, public education... his stump speech.
Yes, it was boring, and we're calling Lieberman the winner. But there were a few points worth making:
First, the talk of values and tradition has been co-opted by the Democrats.
Second, Lieberman can't shake that "aw shucks hangdog" expression, and Cheney can't shake that sneaky grin like a junior high school kid who just got away with some silly stunt as he looked away from the camera.
Third, Cheney comes across as a stronger leader than Bush himself -- far more commanding, and infinitely more articulate. Lieberman comes across as a soft-spoken, confident idea man loathe to criticize individuals but unafraid to critique political policy and culture.
Fourth, it was just too polite.
Fifth, it will have no more than a one-point effect on the polls on Gore's favor -- if there is any effect at all.